Topic: First Drive: 2019 Hyundai Santa Fe

[tooscoops]

amazing how often I have to explain that to people. the average person just doesn't know any of that stuff and has this attachment to their own car, thinking it is the best machine in the world. so they aren't surprised that someone "wants" it...

so then they look it up online, see clean blackbook values, or what they are selling for, and go see the dealer thinking it's a win-win... when they give them a trade value 3k lower than average black book, they are astounded and offended. but many, due to rarely buying a car and getting excited prior to the dealer visit, now have planted the seed that it's time to replace it. then it is just a bit of negotiating to get a slightly better deal to feel better about it.

all because of a stupid mailer that wasn't even telling the whole truth. yes, they want your trade... of course they do (for the right price)... more importantly, they want to sell a new one.

[Jaeger]

amazing how often I have to explain that to people. the average person just doesn't know any of that stuff and has this attachment to their own car, thinking it is the best machine in the world. so they aren't surprised that someone "wants" it...

so then they look it up online, see clean blackbook values, or what they are selling for, and go see the dealer thinking it's a win-win... when they give them a trade value 3k lower than average black book, they are astounded and offended. but many, due to rarely buying a car and getting excited prior to the dealer visit, now have planted the seed that it's time to replace it. then it is just a bit of negotiating to get a slightly better deal to feel better about it.

all because of a stupid mailer that wasn't even telling the whole truth. yes, they want your trade... of course they do (for the right price)... more importantly, they want to sell a new one.

Those letters serve their purpose - they get people into the dealership and at least considering a new car purchase, who would otherwise not have done so.  Even if some are disappointed and walk away, a portion of them will eventually work out a trade in on a new car.  Even if that percentage is small, it's certainly worth the cost of the mailing.

[Railton]

...so then they look it up online, see clean blackbook values, or what they are selling for, and go see the dealer thinking it's a win-win... when they give them a trade value 3k lower than average black book, they are astounded and offended.

I am surprised that Black Book is still a thing. I mean, if the data is wrong why not fix it or get rid of it?
Railton

[EV-Light]

I really like these, but Hyundai has got to improve the fuel economy! They are basically in truck territory...

I’d love to see a hybrid or PHEV version...


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[dirtyjeffer]

I really like these, but Hyundai has got to improve the fuel economy! They are basically in truck territory...

i think most of these 4000+ lb CUVs with 4 cylinder engines are all going to consume the required amount of fuel to move them...it takes a certain amount of power to move these reasonably large and heavy vehicles...i don't think there's too much of a difference between most of them...a lot also depends on how they are driven...dipping into boost uses fuel, but it's fun.

[EV-Light]

I really like these, but Hyundai has got to improve the fuel economy! They are basically in truck territory...

i think most of these 4000+ lb CUVs with 4 cylinder engines are all going to consume the required amount of fuel to move them...it takes a certain amount of power to move these reasonably large and heavy vehicles...i don't think there's too much of a difference between most of them...a lot also depends on how they are driven...dipping into boost uses fuel, but it's fun.

Nope and nope and nope again.....like I said, one better off buying a truck - it has more power and it’s more practical.




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[dirtyjeffer]

I really like these, but Hyundai has got to improve the fuel economy! They are basically in truck territory...

i think most of these 4000+ lb CUVs with 4 cylinder engines are all going to consume the required amount of fuel to move them...it takes a certain amount of power to move these reasonably large and heavy vehicles...i don't think there's too much of a difference between most of them...a lot also depends on how they are driven...dipping into boost uses fuel, but it's fun.

Nope and nope and nope again.....like I said, one better off buying a truck - it has more power and it’s more practical.




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you just proved my point...i said there wasn't much difference between them, and when you look at your linked photo, there isn't...we're talking 2-3 mpg...they're all about the same...250ish HP to move 4000+ lb vehicles needs X fuel...that's why they are all in the same ballpark.

[greengs]

2-3 mpg is a pretty big difference when you're comparing vehicles in the same segment.  I kept browsing that site and every single 2.0T CUV I select has better ratings.  Most of the V6 ones do too.  The new Genesis G70 2.0t sedan has awful fuel ratings too compared to competition.  Is the Hyundai turbo engine really old and in need of redesign?   

[tooscoops]

...so then they look it up online, see clean blackbook values, or what they are selling for, and go see the dealer thinking it's a win-win... when they give them a trade value 3k lower than average black book, they are astounded and offended.

I am surprised that Black Book is still a thing. I mean, if the data is wrong why not fix it or get rid of it?
Railton

oh they are still one decent tool to use... but it gives a value that might be a few months old... no one cares that it is a "reconditioned" price and everyone thinks they get to add money because theirs is "super nice" and has tint... oh and that hit it had was just cosmetic, so it shouldn't affect anything.

black book specifically states their value represents a reconditioned value, so you have to drop a high estimate for each fix that is needed.

people think average means what a kinda rough car got on trade... nope. it is what a car is worth on a dealers books... so what the car should stand the dealer after it has been cleaned up and gone through the shop, ready to sell.

and this day and age, customers come in expecting to *buy* a car at blackbook value... so if they do that, I sure can't give it on trade.

TL;DR = the number is high, but it's better than nothing. just go in knowing it is high.

[dirtyjeffer]

2-3 mpg is a pretty big difference when you're comparing vehicles in the same segment.  I kept browsing that site and every single 2.0T CUV I select has better ratings.  Most of the V6 ones do too.

the picture you posted has no user ratings for the Santa Fe, only the official ratings...as well, the others you show only have 1 rating...not exactly a scientific study...as well, it's how you drive it...my Sorento has the 2.0T engine too and i've gotten as low as high 8s on the highway (about 27mpg)...as i said, they're all going to be similar...a difference of a couple mpgs shouldn't be a deciding factor in your purchase.

The new Genesis G70 2.0t sedan has awful fuel ratings too compared to competition.  Is the Hyundai turbo engine really old and in need of redesign?   

a sports sedan doesn't get great fuel economy???wow, i'm surprised about that.

[dkaz]

21 vs. 24 MPG is 11.1 l/100km vs. 9.8 l/100km. Not insubstantial. I hate MPGs for being non-linear. Were you to compare 41 and 44 MPG, that's 5.7 l/100km vs. 5.3 l/100km.

[greengs]

2-3 mpg is a pretty big difference when you're comparing vehicles in the same segment.  I kept browsing that site and every single 2.0T CUV I select has better ratings.  Most of the V6 ones do too.

the picture you posted has no user ratings for the Santa Fe, only the official ratings...as well, the others you show only have 1 rating...not exactly a scientific study...as well, it's how you drive it...my Sorento has the 2.0T engine too and i've gotten as low as high 8s on the highway (about 27mpg)...as i said, they're all going to be similar...a difference of a couple mpgs shouldn't be a deciding factor in your purchase.

The new Genesis G70 2.0t sedan has awful fuel ratings too compared to competition.  Is the Hyundai turbo engine really old and in need of redesign?   

a sports sedan doesn't get great fuel economy???wow, i'm surprised about that.

I didn't post any pictures, it was another user.  Those are official ratings presumably all done the same way so it's easy to compare fuel economy.  What you or I get is irrelevant because of how the cars are driven will vary.  I was just wondering why Hyundai has the worst EPA ratings of the bunch. 

The Genesis G70 is the same:

BMW 330 = 27mpg
A4 = 27 mpg
C300 = 26 mpg
G70 = 23 mpg

It may not matter at all to a lot of people, but there has to be a reason why all the other 2.0t equipped cars get better ratings and this isn't just one segment it looks like.   

[whaddaiknow]

The Genesis G70 is the same:

BMW 330 = 27mpg
A4 = 27 mpg
C300 = 26 mpg
G70 = 23 mpg

It may not matter at all to a lot of people, but there has to be a reason why all the other 2.0t equipped cars get better ratings and this isn't just one segment it looks like.   

^^That's a YUUUGE difference within the same class and the same 2.0T engine.

[whaddaiknow]

Weight?

G70 Curb Weight: 1,595 kg (3,516.4 lb)
BMW 330i Curb Weight: 3,501 lb

So they are a bathroom break apart in weight. Gotta be something else.
I don't knock on Hyundai since we've owned 5 of them in our extended family over the last 10 years. All of them were pretty thirsty.
But when I see a Santa Fe 2.0T rated the same as a half-ton truck, that tells me it's time for Hyundai to figure it out.

[dirtyjeffer]

Weight?

G70 Curb Weight: 1,595 kg (3,516.4 lb)
BMW 330i Curb Weight: 3,501 lb

So they are a bathroom break apart in weight. Gotta be something else.
I don't knock on Hyundai since we've owned 5 of them in our extended family over the last 10 years. All of them were pretty thirsty.
But when I see a Santa Fe 2.0T rated the same as a half-ton truck, that tells me it's time for Hyundai to figure it out.

BMW engines are known to be quite efficient...reliability is hit and miss though...pick your poison.

i looked up some premium AWD vehicles to compare and noticed the Lexus GS F Sport with the 2.0T is rated at 24 mpg, or 1 mpg better than the G70...the Cadillac ATS AWD with the 2.0T is rated at 25 mpg, or 2mpg better...the best fuel economy has never been Hyundai or Kia's hallmark...it's likely something they'll work on...but this conversation reminds of the original 2.0T used in the Sonata a few years ago...when the revised version came out after a few years (2015?), they dropped the power down from 269HP to something like 245HP in order to improve fuel economy...the place went nuts...damned if you do, damned if you don't...the buying public, especially in this segment, likely doesn't give a hoot about a difference of a couple of mpgs...they'll buy the car they like best.