Topic: Toyota, Mazda to form technology-sharing partnership

[Autos_Editor]

No ring yet, but the relationship sounds promising
Read More...

[Noto]

I don't understand how that iA is any bit a Toyota - it looks Mazda through and through.

Either way, let's see how it unveils itself - the partnership with Toyota getting better ICEs sounds really, really great.

...and if Toyota keeps it up, maybe we'll see an HCCI boxer 4-banger

[Danno001]

Must be a very difficult technology to master for consumer use. There are videos on YouTube from 2007 showing a GM animation of their HCCI engine design.

[redman]

Interesting and innovative to see a small company like Mazda becoming a leader in the combustion engine tech.

I get the sharing somewhat but don't really see hydrogen as being a viable fuel source option considering hydrogen fuel infrastructure requirements.

Wonder if there will a be some three way sharing with FHI considering Toyota's part ownership of Subaru.

[Noto]

Wonder if there will a be some three way sharing with FHI considering Toyota's part ownership of Subaru.

Like I said - D4S Boxer with HCCI, hybrid synergy drive and symmetrical AWD.

...all in a car that MSRPs for under $30k

[Danno001]

I get the sharing somewhat but don't really see hydrogen as being a viable fuel source option considering hydrogen fuel infrastructure requirements.

From what I see, it goes beyond infrastructure to where it costs more to manufacture hydrogen that the net end result in BTU finished product. That is a very difficult obstacle to over come, and then there are the infrastructure issues to deal with.

[johngenx]

I understand it takes 130,000BTUs to strip 100,000BTUs of H from H2O.

[Noto]

I understand it takes 130,000BTUs to strip 100,000BTUs of H from H2O.

That's the issue - electrolysis requires the input of energy to split the water particle, and when Hydrogen is allowed to react with Oxygen, it's an exothermic reaction (releases energy).  You obviously need the latter to power the drive battery in FCEVs, and so, unless hydrogen gas is naturally occurring in quantities that are necessary for the demand, it has to be made by splitting water (which takes energy to accomplish).  Those factories will invariably use some form of energy to run - be it coal, hydro, nuclear, etc.  Based on energy demands, it won't be wind.

I think making ICEs better, along with hybrids (more so range-extended BEVs) are the way of the future.  The more I read into HCCI, the more I wonder if perhaps the best thing to do is to make a very, very small generator ICE with HCCI rather than a traction engine since HCCI's main disadvantage is that it doesn't work well at low or high RPMs.  You could therefore use the HCCI engine to generate electricity at the optimum efficiency when necessary to recharge the battery.

Or perhaps that's Toyota-Mazda's ideal - to create a better RxBEV?  To out-Volt the Volt?

[mixmanmash]

I understand it takes 130,000BTUs to strip 100,000BTUs of H from H2O.

That's the issue - electrolysis requires the input of energy to split the water particle, and when Hydrogen is allowed to react with Oxygen, it's an exothermic reaction (releases energy).  You obviously need the latter to power the drive battery in FCEVs, and so, unless hydrogen gas is naturally occurring in quantities that are necessary for the demand, it has to be made by splitting water (which takes energy to accomplish).  Those factories will invariably use some form of energy to run - be it coal, hydro, nuclear, etc.  Based on energy demands, it won't be wind.

I think making ICEs better, along with hybrids (more so range-extended BEVs) are the way of the future.  The more I read into HCCI, the more I wonder if perhaps the best thing to do is to make a very, very small generator ICE with HCCI rather than a traction engine since HCCI's main disadvantage is that it doesn't work well at low or high RPMs.  You could therefore use the HCCI engine to generate electricity at the optimum efficiency when necessary to recharge the battery.

Or perhaps that's Toyota-Mazda's ideal - to create a better RxBEV?  To out-Volt the Volt?

Another option: They could make the engine only operate in HCCI mode once up to speed/cruising/light loads.  Use spark ignition for other conditions.  Mercedes Benz had a prototype engine running in a car that did just that.  It's basically running like a diesel, but on gasoline instead when on HCCI mode.

[Noto]

I understand it takes 130,000BTUs to strip 100,000BTUs of H from H2O.

That's the issue - electrolysis requires the input of energy to split the water particle, and when Hydrogen is allowed to react with Oxygen, it's an exothermic reaction (releases energy).  You obviously need the latter to power the drive battery in FCEVs, and so, unless hydrogen gas is naturally occurring in quantities that are necessary for the demand, it has to be made by splitting water (which takes energy to accomplish).  Those factories will invariably use some form of energy to run - be it coal, hydro, nuclear, etc.  Based on energy demands, it won't be wind.

I think making ICEs better, along with hybrids (more so range-extended BEVs) are the way of the future.  The more I read into HCCI, the more I wonder if perhaps the best thing to do is to make a very, very small generator ICE with HCCI rather than a traction engine since HCCI's main disadvantage is that it doesn't work well at low or high RPMs.  You could therefore use the HCCI engine to generate electricity at the optimum efficiency when necessary to recharge the battery.

Or perhaps that's Toyota-Mazda's ideal - to create a better RxBEV?  To out-Volt the Volt?

Another option: They could make the engine only operate in HCCI mode once up to speed/cruising/light loads.  Use spark ignition for other conditions.  Mercedes Benz had a prototype engine running in a car that did just that.  It's basically running like a diesel, but on gasoline instead when on HCCI mode.

[CSH]

Well maybe the next prius will have a skyactiv engine to improve the fuel economy even more and Mazda will offer a 3 or 6 hybrid using toyota's system. dont know how much will the FE improve. Toyota needs bits and pieces of skyactiv and mazada can do with toyota's hybrid knowledge

[Noto]

Well maybe the next prius will have a skyactiv engine to improve the fuel economy even more and Mazda will offer a 3 or 6 hybrid using toyota's system. dont know how much will the FE improve. Toyota needs bits and pieces of skyactiv and mazada can do with toyota's hybrid knowledge

Didn't Nissan use Toyota's HSD in the Altima (the V6 hybrid), and then later developed its own 2.5L supercharged Hybrid for the QX60 and Pathfinder?

[northsparrow]

What is the Automotive World coming to when Toyota can no longer bother to build their own engines or cars?

It sounds like they are stealing a page from 1980s GM's book and we know how that ended.

[Ex-airbalancer]

What is the Automotive World coming to when Toyota can no longer bother to build their own engines or cars?

It sounds like they are stealing a page from 1980s GM's book and we know how that ended.

Apple has no factories, they appear to be doing OK