Author Topic: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011  (Read 20165 times)

Offline Autos_Editor

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Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« on: January 19, 2012, 03:04:31 am »


Though it's an 'appealing car', the A6's 'reliability is so-so at best, and replacement parts and repairs are expensive.'

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Offline sailor723

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2012, 06:31:28 am »
As the reviewer points out a 3-4 year old luxury car can seem like a compelling value proposition when compared to a mainstream mid-sized sedan. It's important for buyers to go in with their eyes open as to both higher repair and routine maintenance costs. This is where a CPO program can help but once again...be aware of exclusions and the fact you are paying for this in terms of a higher purchase price.
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Offline Winterpeg

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 07:23:01 am »
I really....REALLY want to love all German made autos.....BUT (alwaus the but) they always play the same song...."take my money and run".    ;)
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Offline Winterpeg

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 07:26:32 am »
Please excuse the spelling boo boos....sniffing too much motor oil as of late.  ;)

Offline Snowman

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 07:27:26 am »
I don't understand how the Germans manufactures can continue to claim superior engineering when their products have sub-par reliability and require expensive solutions to repair. Why can't the Germans dedicate as much effort into quality as they do into look and feel?

Offline tpl

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2012, 07:46:26 am »
I don't understand how the Germans manufactures can continue to claim superior engineering when their products have sub-par reliability and require expensive solutions to repair. Why can't the Germans dedicate as much effort into quality as they do into look and feel?
I have wondered about this.

I expect they do put a lot of effort into quality.    What is it about NA conditions that makes the cars  less reliable? Or are they less reliable than in the GDM. The German engineers are missing something but I wonder what.

One thing is that I would like to see the maintenance schedules for German cars sold in Germany. And, does Germany have a good annual inspection program.

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Offline hemusbull

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2012, 08:22:07 am »
Nothing wrong with the German engineering - it certanly follows the British one. Together with lower than average reliability, German car manufacturing gona go away from ...Europe. Just a matter of time. German auto industry workers have the highest per hour cost in the whole world. If their industry doesn't transform it gona collapse. If eventualy the euro breaks, this process will come even sooner...Good grief!

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2012, 08:28:15 am »
I don't understand how the Germans manufactures can continue to claim superior engineering when their products have sub-par reliability and require expensive solutions to repair. Why can't the Germans dedicate as much effort into quality as they do into look and feel?
I have wondered about this.

I expect they do put a lot of effort into quality.    What is it about NA conditions that makes the cars  less reliable? Or are they less reliable than in the GDM. The German engineers are missing something but I wonder what.

One thing is that I would like to see the maintenance schedules for German cars sold in Germany. And, does Germany have a good annual inspection program.



HOw much maintenance does a coil pack, window regulator or lightbulb need? ??? ;D
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Offline tpl

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2012, 08:50:48 am »
Should be zero for the coilpack and lightbulb and very little for the window regulator. Which then leads to my other question...what is different between NA and Germany and are German cars more reliable at home?  As far as I have been able to discover, German cars are not any more unreliable than any others at home.

I have never had the lightbulb virus but I do agree that on VW group cars it is the little niggly bits of electronics and stuff like windows that dies far too early the cars life.

 

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2012, 09:29:28 am »
Should be zero for the coilpack and lightbulb and very little for the window regulator. Which then leads to my other question...what is different between NA and Germany and are German cars more reliable at home?  As far as I have been able to discover, German cars are not any more unreliable than any others at home.

I have never had the lightbulb virus but I do agree that on VW group cars it is the little niggly bits of electronics and stuff like windows that dies far too early the cars life.
 

The Porsche 911 came out as the most reliable car in Germany based on TUV results. Looking at Consumer Reports results, it looks like the 911 is likely the most reliable German car on offer here too. So I'm not sure if reliability is much different between cars offered here and cars sold in Europe.

I do believe that Europeans in general have a higher tolerance for unreliability than people here. As bad as cars got here in the 1970s, the stuff being cranked out by the Italians, French and English was an order of magnitude worse.

Offline JohnM

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2012, 09:35:34 am »
In Germany they have a very rigid government annual inspection program.  I can only speculate that Germans also follow the Audi spec'd service regimen and that independent garages also stick to it religiously. 

Drive it and forget it isn't part of the game over there.

Cheers,
John M.

Offline Soram6275

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2012, 10:10:14 am »
If Honda can put out another Acura Legend, albeit refreshed, I will gladly buy it.  The problem is that as unreliable as the German cars may be at times, they are still vastly superior in every other dimension and by the way, their reliability is not WAY OFF either - otherwise they couldn't make them, period.  Maybe their reliability is behind the Japanese, but not by as big a margin as some would have you believe...and interestingly enough most people that complain about their reliability have never owned one...they just go by hearsay.

I wish I could go back to the Honda/Acura fold, but design wise they are so uninspiring these days.  If you want to drive a German car and are worried about reliability, just lease it and buy it later if you like it or return it and go back to driving a bland Camry appliance.  The great thing is we all have choices.

Offline canuckystan

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2012, 11:07:59 am »
I suspect that maybe the high end German manufacturers purposefully keep repair costs high and they are not interested in building a bombproof car like a Corolla.

Why?  Three reasons in my mind.

1) Service departments are a huge cash cow for dealerships - they would lose a lot of money if people only ever needed oil changes and brakes.

2) The German makers don't want every schlub driving their cars - if they were as reliable as a Corolla (for example) a lot more people would take the plunge on the used market, and you'd see grungy beat up bimmers driving around - not good for the image, not good for new sales.

3) Owners don't seem to care - the majority of owners are dedicated and wouldn't drive anything else for the most part.


Offline Vanstar

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2012, 12:09:10 pm »
I don't understand how the Germans manufactures can continue to claim superior engineering when their products have sub-par reliability and require expensive solutions to repair. Why can't the Germans dedicate as much effort into quality as they do into look and feel?

It is really very simple. They sell the cars at high prices and make loads of money on each one. Were they to increase quality, they would make less money.

Lots of people buy these German luxury cars and profits are high. The have to reason to change.
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Offline aquadorhj

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2012, 12:12:17 pm »
I suspect that maybe the high end German manufacturers purposefully keep repair costs high and they are not interested in building a bombproof car like a Corolla.

Why?  Three reasons in my mind.
 overall, i have the same impression as you re: german high end cars.  however, logic doesn't prevail entirely for all your points.
Quote
1) Service departments are a huge cash cow for dealerships - they would lose a lot of money if people only ever needed oil changes and brakes.
lexus has one of the highest reliability rating, and is pretty much equally meticulously engineered as germans, but don't suffer the same reliability woes and related service costs.
Quote
2) The German makers don't want every schlub driving their cars - if they were as reliable as a Corolla (for example) a lot more people would take the plunge on the used market, and you'd see grungy beat up bimmers driving around - not good for the image, not good for new sales.
 maybe you are right.  but in EU, MB is widely used as taxi cab.....  i don't know how much lower you can go.

Quote
3) Owners don't seem to care - the majority of owners are dedicated and wouldn't drive anything else for the most part.
you are probably quite right.

another thing, though, is that german cars are often "over-engineered"..  that doesn't always mean it's built like space shuttle with triple redundancy fail-safe features, or like M1 abrahams with thick steels super powerful engines. (though a lot of german cars DO leave tank-like impressions in people's mind)

often, it's actually little things.  
1.suspension joints that naturally fail over time.   they are easy to change on most cars.  but on germans, with their multilinks and fancy-pants materials, require convoluted tools and method to replace them.
2.engine bays.  with shrouds and jam packed engine bay with stuff that you can never understand, requires HOURS to do simple things.
3.parts are expensive.   coils that cost say $30 for a domestic cars, cost up to $400 for high end benz..  they do EXACTLY the same thing...

i don't dislike german cars. (i've had 3 so far) but sometimes, you have to wonder, what the F*XK those engineers in germany were thinking when they decided to build something the way they are.

Driving thrills makes my wallet lighter.. and therefore makes me faster because i'm shedding weight... :D

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2012, 12:34:54 pm »
I don't understand how the Germans manufactures can continue to claim superior engineering when their products have sub-par reliability and require expensive solutions to repair. Why can't the Germans dedicate as much effort into quality as they do into look and feel?

"Superior German engineering" pertains to their engines, transmissions, suspensions, etc. which are indeed superior.  Unfortunately, with these new and very advanced technologies, come expensive repairs and niggling problems.

Offline aquadorhj

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2012, 12:47:01 pm »
I don't understand how the Germans manufactures can continue to claim superior engineering when their products have sub-par reliability and require expensive solutions to repair. Why can't the Germans dedicate as much effort into quality as they do into look and feel?

"Superior German engineering" pertains to their engines, transmissions, suspensions, etc. which are indeed superior.  Unfortunately, with these new and very advanced technologies, come expensive repairs and niggling problems.

which engine, which transmission and which suspension technology are we talking about?

Audi V6's have not been advanced until very recently.  fairly robust, sure, but not advanced.
and even now, their "advanced" direct injection engines have some problems with carbon deposits and nothing to write home about with regards to power output without forced induction.

DSG transmission is advanced for sure.  but 8speed auto was first employed by lexus.

suspension, ... maybe.   but if it costs more to produce and more to maintain, can it really be considered "superior"?

Offline johngenx

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2012, 01:04:59 pm »
German reliability has, for a long time, been dependent on the model that you bought.  They introduced the most cutting edge technologies in their top models, and high end customers were the test subjects.  The base models were simpler and used only tested technologies.

At Mercedes, the small and mid sized cars were typically very reliable, and the S-Class was mechanically robust, but had lots of features that were more likely to break.

What you used to get when you bought a Mercedes was an engine, transmission, related driveline parts, suspension, and other major systems that outlasted, by a large margin, those sold by "lesser" brands.  Back in the 70's, it was hard to buy a car that had an expected engine life of 300,000km, or much, much more.  Mercedes "over engineered" the bottom-ends of their engines to the point that if you changed the oil and filter on a somewhat regular basis, the engine would last virtually forever.  The old single cam sixes as used in the W124 300E models would require some minor head work (valve seals), but otherwise would last well over 500K.  My 190E 2.6 used a version of the same driveline, and at 510K, the engine was strong, the transmission still good, and so on.

But, the Japanese cottoned on.  They started selling less expensive cars that would easily last as long as 99% of consumers wanted to keep their cars.  The paid close attention to electronic reliability.  They either built things themselves, or demanded suppliers build good parts.  In Germany, ZF, VDO, Bosch and Hirshmann, just to name some, built JUNK for various car makers.  For years and years every MB owner knew their cruise control (VDO) would stop working, their power antenna would crap out (Hirsmann) and their radio (Bosch) would quit long before the first brake pads were swapped out.  BMW owners were subjected to rotten ZF automatic transmissions.  No Japanese company would have tolerated repeated low quality parts from suppliers.

Toyota showed that you could build a flagship car with a lot of features that would be reliable.  The 1990 Lexus LS400 was the cruise missile that left a lot of German makers wondering what had hit them.  But, did they really wake up?  Not completely...

nsmyhte

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2012, 01:23:36 pm »
I don't understand how the Germans manufactures can continue to claim superior engineering when their products have sub-par reliability and require expensive solutions to repair. Why can't the Germans dedicate as much effort into quality as they do into look and feel?

"Superior German engineering" pertains to their engines, transmissions, suspensions, etc. which are indeed superior.  Unfortunately, with these new and very advanced technologies, come expensive repairs and niggling problems.

which engine, which transmission and which suspension technology are we talking about?

Audi V6's have not been advanced until very recently.  fairly robust, sure, but not advanced.
and even now, their "advanced" direct injection engines have some problems with carbon deposits and nothing to write home about with regards to power output without forced induction.

DSG transmission is advanced for sure.  but 8speed auto was first employed by lexus.

suspension, ... maybe.   but if it costs more to produce and more to maintain, can it really be considered "superior"?
German cars are at the cutting edge of engine, tranny and suspension technology.  I'm not talking specifically about Audi but about MB, BMW, Porsche too.  Just because it costs more to maintain or produce doesn't mean its not technologically superior.  High tech things cost more to make anyways.  Be it engines, drugs, infotainment, telecommunications, whatever.

Offline tpl

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Re: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2012, 01:30:53 pm »
Maybe the top of the line complicated German cars should be maintained like aircraft.   I am not sure that the buying public ( even the 1% whoc buy S-class M-Bs ) would go along with that tho'