Author Topic: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding  (Read 13041 times)

Offline Autos_Editor

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 8326
  • Carma: +91/-560
  • member
    • View Profile
Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« on: April 12, 2010, 04:04:25 am »
Excessive speeding is being treated much more seriously than it used to be, says lawyer Jordan Charness.  Many provinces have doubled or tripled fines and points related to excessive speeding and added additional sanctions as well, he notes.
Read More...

Berislav

  • Guest
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 02:32:26 pm »
In northern giving speeding tickets most of the time is ridiculous.
you can drive 120 to 130 kms/hr from Barrie to busy Toronto, and its O.K. but do that in Northern Ont. where there's not much traffic & you get ticketed. Where it's busy, you can go fast & where it's not busy you get ticketed. Doesn't make any sense.
Try to drive from Sault Ste. Marie to Parry Sound at the max. speed limit of 90 kms/hr And you will go totally insane b4 you reach  Blind River (90 kms - 1.5 hours).
In Germany , the ave. speed is 82 mph & their highway death rate is no higher than ours in North America. Speed is not the problem most of the time!!! Other reasons: poor drivers, poor road, & #1 drunk driving.

bluethumb

  • Guest
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 03:53:39 pm »
The problem is the speed limits themselves. When were these speed limits introduced?  30, 40, 50 years ago when all cars were 3 tons, had bias ply tires and no power assist for the drum brakes.  They wallowed like an old boat, couldn't turn, couldn't stop and a lot of the time had drivers that came right off the farm tractors. Modern cars have speed rated tires, ABS, stability control, traction control and a whole host of safety features, like airbags, tire pressure monitoring, adaptive radar cruise control, and the list goes on. There should be some serious reconsideration of these limits, particularly in the remote areas with relatively light traffic.  As far as punishments go, here in NS, we get fined, and our license suspended for a week for a first offence. If you're going to punish people, a fine OR a suspension, not friggen both. It's like punishing someone twice for the same offence. Ridiculous. If the govt would get it's act together and be proactive people wouldn't have to "speed" on a highway that has antiquated speeds. But, then they, the govts, wouldn't be raking in as much cash would they? 

Offline johngenx

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 33318
  • Carma: +758/-938
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2009 Toyota Corolla, 2004 Toyota Highlander V-6 4WD, 2001 Subaru Forester, 1994 Mazda Miata
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 04:26:15 pm »
True that cars are better, but congestion has increased problems and drivers are no better, or perhaps worse than decades ago.  With distractions and other "non driving' behaviours, a car traveling at 50km/h over the limit can be a bloody missile.

So, we need better driver training, stiffer licensing requirements, strict enforcement of poor behaviour like tailgating and aggressive driving, immediate jail sentences for DUI (to protect the public from re-occurrence) and a host of other things that would not only make our roads safer, but improve the overall driving experience, before we need to spend an inordinate amount of time on "excessive" speeding.

Offline Triple Bob

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 18139
  • Carma: +308/-574
  • Gender: Male
  • Profesional Dash Stroker
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Tundra, GTI, Triumph Tiger, KTM, C63 AMG, FZ-09, Triumph Speed Triple, VW Golf Wagon TDI, BMW 535i, Honda CRF250L, Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Mitsubishi Outlander, Lotus Exige, Subaru Impreza, Peugeot 106, BMW Z4, Toyota MR2 MKIII, Ford Sierra Sapphire
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 04:30:11 pm »
True that cars are better, but congestion has increased problems and drivers are no better, or perhaps worse than decades ago.  With distractions and other "non driving' behaviours, a car traveling at 50km/h over the limit can be a bloody missile.

So, we need better driver training, stiffer licensing requirements, strict enforcement of poor behaviour like tailgating and aggressive driving, immediate jail sentences for DUI (to protect the public from re-occurrence) and a host of other things that would not only make our roads safer, but improve the overall driving experience, before we need to spend an inordinate amount of time on "excessive" speeding.

100% agree.

But it's all politics rather than common sense. Won't somebody please think of the children!


Choosing a car based on reliability is like choosing a wife based solely because she is punctual. There is more to it than that...

Bluethumb

  • Guest
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2010, 05:55:21 pm »
True that cars are better, but congestion has increased problems and drivers are no better, or perhaps worse than decades ago.  With distractions and other "non driving' behaviours, a car traveling at 50km/h over the limit can be a bloody missile.

So, we need better driver training, stiffer licensing requirements, strict enforcement of poor behaviour like tailgating and aggressive driving, immediate jail sentences for DUI (to protect the public from re-occurrence) and a host of other things that would not only make our roads safer, but improve the overall driving experience, before we need to spend an inordinate amount of time on "excessive" speeding.

Maybe from your point of view, as you're probably from southern Ontario where it's very congested. Try driving from Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay and see how congested it is.I'm not talking about the heavily populated areas, I'm talking about the TCH(#17) from Ottawa to Kenora. It's two lanes of endless blacktop that is sparsely populated and has far less traffic than southern Ontario. I agree that driver training should me MANDATORY. Simply writing a test to allow access to the pubic roads is a recipe for bad driving habits and accidents. You should HAVE to attend driving school. And not just to learn to parallel park, I mean a summer and winter program where the instructor actually gets the car sideways on snow and teaches people to control a skid in a car rather than telling them what they should do. Have a car with all seasons, and one with winter tires and DEMONSTRATE the difference between the two. Teach them threshold braking, to look where they want to go in a skid, not at what they're about to hit. If you think this is easy, try it, it's not.  

Offline johngenx

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 33318
  • Carma: +758/-938
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2009 Toyota Corolla, 2004 Toyota Highlander V-6 4WD, 2001 Subaru Forester, 1994 Mazda Miata
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2010, 06:03:36 pm »
Maybe from your point of view, as you're probably from southern Ontario

 :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:

Roy Brand

  • Guest
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2010, 06:26:17 pm »
Transportation safety authorities long ago discovered that on an unregulated road, the 80th percentile speed is the safest speed. Traffic will flow safely and efficiently if the speed limit is set in accordance with this principle rather than  choosing an arbitrary speed determined without reference to normal traffic volumes, road design and terrain.

The majority of drivers intuitively establish the appropriate speed for a given location. Speed traps are typically located in locations where designated speed limits are significantly lower than this "natural" speed.

Cyrus

  • Guest
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 06:55:16 pm »
That is the 85th percentile not 80th percentile... the region of 85-90th percentile is safest, thus the speed limit "rule" is 85th percentile rounded up to nearest 10 km/h (having a speed limit 136.8 on the 401 would be silly).

Offline newf1946

  • Learner's Permit
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Carma: +0/-1
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2010, 11:57:18 am »
 :popo:
Government knows that this is a nice cash cow with not much room to argue about the validity of a speed limit for a specific area. I live in a rural and on a stretch of highway that is very light travelled the speed limit is constantly going up and dowm even though there are few homes on the stretch. Even though I travel it often I still hav trouble remembering which speed limit I am in.

Offline safristi

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 46229
  • Carma: +471/-416
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: since the beginning of Saf timeLOTUS ELAN,STANDARD... 10, MG midget, MGB (2),Mazda Millennia,Hyundai Veloster and 1997 Ford Ranger 2014 Subaru Forester XT
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2010, 12:09:03 pm »
..SPEED PAYS................ :popo: :cp2:..thru tha NOSE..................................
Time is to stop everything happening at once

aknutson

  • Guest
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2010, 12:14:43 pm »
In northern giving speeding tickets most of the time is ridiculous.
you can drive 120 to 130 kms/hr from Barrie to busy Toronto, and its O.K. but do that in Northern Ont. where there's not much traffic & you get ticketed. Where it's busy, you can go fast & where it's not busy you get ticketed. Doesn't make any sense.
Try to drive from Sault Ste. Marie to Parry Sound at the max. speed limit of 90 kms/hr And you will go totally insane b4 you reach  Blind River (90 kms - 1.5 hours).
In Germany , the ave. speed is 82 mph & their highway death rate is no higher than ours in North America. Speed is not the problem most of the time!!! Other reasons: poor drivers, poor road, & #1 drunk driving.

Couldn't agree with you more. And growing up in a small northern town up past North Bay, I know how the fuzz loves to wait backed up all hidden-like in side laneways and bust you for doing 110 in a 90 - but as you said, 120, 130 is fine on the 400/407/etc. Granted, there are less moose on the 407, and I take my time driving up North, especially at night. It all boils down to intelligent, well-trained drivers, and if we could rely on a few more people having the right attitude about how/when to drive fast, we could all stand to loosen the constraints a bit.

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2010, 03:35:31 pm »
Maybe from your point of view, as you're probably from southern Ontario

 :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Great discussion and I agree with my fellow Northern Ontario residents.

Offline Rupert

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 3346
  • Carma: +49/-160
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2010, 07:40:23 am »
The current speed limits were arrived at back in the 70s as I recall, both here and in the US. The reason was a shortage of oil at the time and lower speed saved consumption. Prior to that the speed limits were higher...80mph on the 401 seems to ring a bell but I am not sure.
Back then large American cars did not handle that well but were ok in a staight line which is most of the driving experience here. Rather than no power assisst on brakes and steering for that matter, there was way too much and road feel was zero. If todays brake pressures were used back then one would be through the windshield in a hurry. European cars...Volvo...Renault...British Leyland and some Japanese handled very well and the difference between these and the American usual product was very marked.

The road between Sault St. Marie (hope I spelled it right) and Parry Sound is poor in my opinion. Some of it is three lane as I recall from 2 years ago and passing can be hazzardous. You are right...tedious but could it stand a much higher limit.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 12:10:37 pm by Rupert »

Offline blur911

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13621
  • Carma: +242/-779
  • Nasty Weasel
    • View Profile
  • Cars: and bikes by age:BMW, Porsche, Subaru, Suzuki, Suzuki, Mazda, Jaguar, Kawasaki, Porsche, GMC, Suzuki
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2010, 08:47:49 am »
The road between Sault St. Marie (hope I spelled it right) and Parry Sound is poor in my opinion. Some of it is three lane as I recall from 2 years ago and passing can be hazzardous. You are right...tedious but could it stand a much nigher limit.

The most hazardous part of passing is that in Ontario it's now called street-racing and gets your car and license  impounded. 
Funny how regular speeding now makes national news, I just heard a regular news report on CBC radio regarding a speeder going the ungodly crazed speed of 148km/h :o     

We've become a nation of scared wusses. :(
Mr Pickypants

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2010, 06:09:27 pm »
The road between Sault St. Marie (hope I spelled it right) and Parry Sound is poor in my opinion. Some of it is three lane as I recall from 2 years ago and passing can be hazzardous. You are right...tedious but could it stand a much nigher limit.

The most hazardous part of passing is that in Ontario it's now called street-racing and gets your car and license  impounded. 
Funny how regular speeding now makes national news, I just heard a regular news report on CBC radio regarding a speeder going the ungodly crazed speed of 148km/h :o     

We've become a nation of scared wusses. :(



 :thumbup: :thumbup:

I agree 100%, on northern highways one must take advantage of the limited passing opportunities as at times they can be spaced out by 10km  :fall: :drive: :skid:. Passing trucks and candy-arse tourists from the south who slow down at the site of a spruce tree demand “speed” to get passed.

Offline Rupert

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 3346
  • Carma: +49/-160
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2010, 07:31:56 am »
Years ago in the UK I seem to remember that speed limits were posted with the adjunct 'except when passing' and there was a thread on here about this that I can not remember the conclusion of. Anyway if this does not apply now then maybe it should. Most trucks on the highway in question go at the limit or above but you do not want to be stuck behind one for a long distance. Vision ahead is impaired and this is an important safety factor. So getting by quickly is a desirable safety measure that should be encouraged IMO.

I seem to remember that area is pretty depressed with the odd derelict motel here and there. Maybe what is needed is more tourism from down south even if it is only passing through. We stop at camp sites, we eat at restaurants, we buy gas and I am sure we are generally decent folk.

htwo

  • Guest
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2010, 10:19:58 pm »
It all started ten years ago, when the local police here in Ontario went from "Waterloo Regional Police Force" to "Waterloo Regional Police Service". They're now advertising themselves as public servants, and no, they won't clean your carpets too, for now.

I think it's absurd why people even travel 130km/h in a 100km/h zone. This is the problem right there. Sure, people who come from Europe with the higher speed roadways think we're nuts, but as mentioned, our drivers don't have basic training mastered and get their license off a whim that the examiner gave them a break.

People just don't care.

It's become a me-me-me-and-me society. People are becoming two faced. They might be nice to talk to in person up close, but once behind the wheel - look out! road rage is everywhere. Everyone is essentially to blame, from automotive marketers (more power so you can drive like an idiot, too!), to us drivers ourselves. I saw it this year again where winter tires were advertised to "increase your winter driving confidence"; meaning you can drive more like an idiot in the winter with better traction.

Going back to speed limits, cops USED to pull people over to failing to signal, now a days its common practice not to use indicators. I don't know why they're still installed on cars to begin with. In Ontario failing to signal is 2 demerit points on your license plus a fine. Technically you can get a $110 ticket for going 15km/h over the limit. Personally I'd pull everyone over and FINE them for going 115km/h, because they're adults and should KNOW BETTER. This is what YOUR kids see first hand, daddy or mommy breaking the law, and they do it so regularly that they think it's OK!

Cops are more lenient in some places because they allow for the speed variance. This variance is with your vehicle. Honda, years ago, recalled vehicles because the speedometers were greater than 7% off of your actual speed. If your car is off say 5% (industry average is roughly 3%) and your tires are inflated to max pressure and you decide to go on a long highway jaunt, and after an hour your tires are up a few pounds of air, the diameter also increases slightly allowing more of a speed difference. These slight calculations can add up. A GPS can come in handy here as it keeps a true speed even though there's a couple second lag time in most cases. So you're speedo can read 115km/h, when in fact you're traveling at 125km/h. HUGE difference. Thus you get pulled over.

If you had set cruise at say 105km/h and your actual speed might have been in the 110-115km/h zone. It can also go the other way, and read 5-10km/h faster than your actual road speed.

This is why there is a 15km/h threshold that cops allow before they pull you over. A lot of people fail to realize that even a $100K vehicle won't be 100% accurate in terms of speed.

I'm at fault as well, I admit it regularly that I'll set my vehicles speed at 110km/h according to my GPS on the 400 series highways here in Ontario, and at 90km/h for the 80km/h roads. However I don't exceed the speed threshold that police use to base citations on. It's a bad thing to get into. I find it's quite relaxing to set the cruise at around 105km/h (GPS indicated speed) and I won't have to pass a soul, except for a few transport trucks. If I hit traffic buildup, I lose time irregardless if I speed or not. If time is that important to travel, save your aggravation and fly.

Not to mention the fact that speed does a lot more things than just burn more gas and get you in trouble with the law. It wears your vehicle faster, in regard to pumps, bearings, tires, brakes, and even transmissions, where heat all plays a major role in component life.

Radar detectors should be banned for sale, and confiscated if found in use in any vehicle. They're not necessary. Children our the future, so lets be sure to raise them properly and teach them how to be adults, even behind the wheel.

Offline Triple Bob

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 18139
  • Carma: +308/-574
  • Gender: Male
  • Profesional Dash Stroker
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Tundra, GTI, Triumph Tiger, KTM, C63 AMG, FZ-09, Triumph Speed Triple, VW Golf Wagon TDI, BMW 535i, Honda CRF250L, Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Mitsubishi Outlander, Lotus Exige, Subaru Impreza, Peugeot 106, BMW Z4, Toyota MR2 MKIII, Ford Sierra Sapphire
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2010, 10:47:52 pm »
Personally I'd pull everyone over and FINE them for going 115km/h, because they're adults and should KNOW BETTER.

Quote
I'll set my vehicles speed at 110km/h according to my GPS

 ::) ::)

Unfortunately you have fallen into the same trap as everyone else when it comes to the "Speed Kills" message, it doesn't.  You seem to manage to speed without killing anyone, why is 5kph more than you SOOOOOO awful?!?

Yes in Western Europe drivers are generally better than in North America, but that doesn't mean we should all dumb down to the lowest common denominator does it? It just means drive with more caution (like a biker), and expect everyone around you to be an idiot and to do something you're not expecting.  Sensible spirited driving is a way of life.

Offline Erik

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 3949
  • Carma: +60/-374
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2000 Honda Insight
Re: Steering You Right: Excessive speeding
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2010, 11:15:37 pm »
Personally I'd pull everyone over and FINE them for going 115km/h, because they're adults and should KNOW BETTER.

Quote
I'll set my vehicles speed at 110km/h according to my GPS

 ::) ::)

Unfortunately you have fallen into the same trap as everyone else when it comes to the "Speed Kills" message, it doesn't.  You seem to manage to speed without killing anyone, why is 5kph more than you SOOOOOO awful?!?

Yes in Western Europe drivers are generally better than in North America, but that doesn't mean we should all dumb down to the lowest common denominator does it? It just means drive with more caution (like a biker), and expect everyone around you to be an idiot and to do something you're not expecting.  Sensible spirited driving is a way of life.

Exactly!

I remember very well back in the 70's when the speed limit on the 401 was 70 mph. Those big lumbering land yachts of the time did just fine with that speed. Modern cars with better brakes, tires, suspensions, etc. should be able to handle it even better.
the 100 kph limit outside of major urban areas is nothing more than a cash grab by the government.
"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive." - Sir William Lyons